by Joni L. Peet, Legal Recruitment Manager, Richards, Layton & Finger
1. Be humble and kind. Not that we expect bowing and scraping, but a little humility can go a long way toward making a favorable impression. A cocky attitude will come across as an unpleasant cover for insecurity. Mild self-deprecating humor usually works. Moreover, ALL persons encountered during your callback should be treated with respect. Be courteous, not condescending, to support staff you meet. They are vital to their organization’s success, and you will be judged on your ability to relate well to all potential coworkers, not just lawyers.
2. Be on time. Even early. This indicates that you have allowed for contingencies such as heavy traffic, or not finding a parking space in the first ten minutes, and were still able to arrive promptly for the interview. While we will be sympathetic if you come running in five minutes late, short of breath and complaining about the traffic, we are secretly thinking that you did not plan your travel time well enough. Moreover, if you have
more than one interview in the same day, it is equally important to be on time for the second one. Try not to fall into the trap of being invited back after lunch to the firm of your morning interview, thereby making you
late for your afternoon interview. Politely decline, saying that you “would love to” but you have an appointment at 2:00 pm.
3. Be sure addressees match. We know that students send letters to multiple potential employers; but when the letter inside the envelope is addressed to someone different than on the outside of the envelope, it leaves us a little soured on the applicant. Along the same lines, any reference to the employer within the body of the letter needs to match that of the addressee. Another good idea is to make sure that multiple addressees are not visible to all recipients when sending emails.
4. Be firm with your handshake. When meeting employer representatives for the first time, step forward and shake hands with confident authority and a no-nonsense grip (that doesn’t mean cutting off the blood circulation). This approach will help create a much more positive first impression than would a half-hearted, “limp fish” handshake.
5. Be ready with two or three “meaty” questions
for your interviewer. When asked by the interviewer if you have any questions, say “Yes!” The response of “No, I think I’ve had all of my questions answered”—or, worse yet, “How do I get back to the Interstate?”— translates to the interviewer as a lack of interest. Instead, students should plan a question or two to ask in such situations that are not “canned” or boilerplate—perhaps a question about the firm’s growth philosophy or what role the firm plays in community service. An interested, enthusiastic student is a breath of fresh air!
6. Be complimentary. Don’t try the Eddie Haskell “Nice sweater, Mrs. Cleaver” type of compliment, but do consider a greeting that quickly follows with a comment about how great your hotel was the night before or an appreciative statement about the firm’s artwork. It is a positive beginning to the callback and makes us feel good about you right from the start.
7. Be kind to employers’ pocketbooks. While many law firms have written parameters for travel expenses, there can be quite a bit of “wiggle” room. Students should make responsible and considerate choices whenever it is up to them to make decisions regarding if, when, and how to spend. Employers will appreciate the mature approach and will not feel as though they are being taken advantage of.
8. Be prompt in rejecting offers. It goes without saying that employers would like all of their offers to be accepted on the spot. The real world of legal hiring, however, is a delicate balancing act between offers and decisions. As soon as a student makes that tough decision to accept or reject, it needs to be communicated to the employer immediately. Certainly calling to accept is more fun than turning down an employer, but rejecting an offer must be done just as promptly! Our feelings will not be hurt (well, maybe a little), but we will think very highly of you for having the courtesy and courage to let us know in a timely manner. Either a phone call
or an email will obviously get the word to us more quickly than regular mail. A rejection letter that is received two weeks after a decision has been made will keep another student unfairly waiting for that elusive offer.
9. Be interested. This has already been touched upon in some of the other tips, but it cannot be stressed enough! Student interest in an employer is typically gauged by alertness, level of engagement with interviewer,
eye contact, number and quality of questions posed, and enthusiasm. Lack of interest, whether real or perceived, is a major reason for unsuccessful callbacks.
10. Be realistic in your post-offer requests. Leave the sun, moon, and stars up in the sky, and, instead, stay grounded on earth when asking for special considerations related to your offer and subsequent employment. For instance, while many employers will invite (quite sincerely) offerees for a return visit to meet more people and get to know the firm better, students should know that asking for more than one post-offer visit can wear out your welcome. Further, if policies are clearly stated regarding allowed travel/moving/housing expenses, it is not advisable to seek exceptions to those policies. If there is a prescribed start date for employment, absent extenuating circumstances, that is the day new hires are expected to be there.
You want to show up that first day amid sincere welcoming faces, not coworkers inwardly groaning because the new pain-in-the-neck associate has arrived.
Notwithstanding the above, employers will be as accommodating as possible to ensure a smooth transition into the legal workplace.
So there it is. Most of the foregoing really comes down to common courtesy, common sense, and consideration. Following these tips may not guarantee an offer, but there is little doubt that employers will respond much more positively to law students who take the above suggestions to heart.
http://www.nalp.org/viewbulletin/?documentID=2311&bulletinID=306
Monday, November 22, 2010
Friday, November 19, 2010
Help! Formal Dinner Etiquette
You nailed your initial interview with firm recruiters and have been invited to fly back to the firm location for a call back interview. During the call back, you are invited to attend a formal dinner in a very upscale restaurant. Knowing a potential offer is on the line, you start to worry about making an etiquette mistake. Here are a few tips to help you navigate a sometimes daunting situation with confidence.
- Turn off your cell phone, get rid of your chewing gum, and if you need to, use the restroom before you sit down.
- Wait for the host or hostess to invite or direct you where to sit.
- When you sit down, your napkin goes in your lap. In some very formal restaurants, a server will place the napkin in your lap for you.
- Order something you are familiar with and is easy to eat. For cues on ordering extras like appetizers, desserts, etc., follow what others in the group do.
- If you are puzzled what all the flatware is for, see the diagram below help. Also, watching what others are doing is also helpful.
- Make small talk with those around you--have a few safe conversation starters prepared such as, "How long have you lived in this city?" "What do you like best about living here?" "What do you like to do in your spare time?" "Have you seen . . . or Have you read . . . ? (the latest movie, a current book, etc.)
- Do not start eating until everyone at the table has been served or until you are invited to eat by the host/ess.
- Pace your eating to match those around you.
- Once a piece of silverware has been used, it never goes back on the table. Place it on the side of a plate.
- When buttering a piece of bread, a roll, etc., tear off a bite sized portion, then butter only that portion.
- Remember, the food is the least important part of the dinner--the conversation is the most important.
- If you have to excuse yourself from the table for any reason, place your napkin on your chair. When you are finished with your meal, loosely fold or gather your napkin and lay it to the left of your place setting.
- If you are offered an alcoholic drink, coffee, etc., a simple, "No thank you, I think I'll just have . . . " is all that's necessary.
- Don't request a take-home bag.
- Remember to thank the host/ess. Be gracious
Wednesday, November 17, 2010
Student Debt Relief - Public Service Careers
by Leeor Neta, Assistant Director for Public Interest Programs at Golden Gate University School of Law. Excerpted from Key Insights from NALP/PSLawNet Public Service Mini-Conference and EJW Conference Career Fair.
The Equal Justice Works (EJW) Conference also featured a lengthy presentation on student debt relief. For many years, most law school graduates that decided to pursue public interest careers had a very difficult time paying back their student loan debt. In the last few years, however, the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program (PSLF) has made it much easier to manage that debt. In fact, PSLF has made it so easy that, according to EJW’s expert on student debt relief, Heather Jarvis, “it is better financially in terms of debt relief to go into public service.”
PSLF was created by the College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007. As Heather often repeated in her presentation, to qualify for PSLF, a person must “make the right kind of payment on the right kind of loan while in the right kind of job.” After 120 qualifying payments, one can apply for and receive forgiveness of the remaining debt.
So what is “the right kind of payment on the right kind of loan while in the right kind of job”?
The “right kind of payment” is referred to as income-based repayment (IBR). IBR is different from a term loan of 10 years or 30 years because it is not calculated to be paid off in a finite period of time; IBR is calculated based only on one’s adjusted gross income. As a result, IBR is significantly less than most 30-year term plan payments. IBR is for everyone regardless of whether one is working in public service. For married couples, both spouses’ debt as well as their income will be considered for purposes of determining the IBR payment. You can determine your IBR payment by going to http://www.ibrinfo.org/ and www.finaid.org/calculators/ibr.phtml.
The “right kind of loan” for purposes of PSLF is a Federal Direct loan. It also includes Grad Plus, FFEL, Perkins and Stafford loans if consolidated with federal direct loans after graduation. The only loans that are NOT included are commercial or alternative loans, Parent PLUS loans, late payments, and loans that are currently in default. Even if some of your debt was incurred before 2007 (when PSLF was created), you need only to reconsolidate under Federal Direct in order to avail yourself of PSLF. You can find out what kinds of student loans you have by going to http://www.nslds.ed.gov/.
The “right kind of job” for purposes of PSLF is work for a government, 501(c)(3) charitable non-profit organization, Americorps, Peace Corps or most other public service organization. The definition is so broad that the only kind of work that is probably NOT included is for-profit sector work, international work, contract work, or work for labor unions. The work must be paid and “full time.” “Full time” means whatever the organization says it means or at least 30 hours per week. The work does not need to be legal, though one needs to be in the qualifying employment when forgiveness is granted.
The best part about IBR is that one can still qualify for loan forgiveness after 25 years, even if one leaves public service, if their income remains low enough for them to qualify. However, if one makes 120 IBR payments while in public service, her debt will be forgiven in just 10 years.
Heather also provided some brief information about two other programs: the Civil Legal Assistance Attorney Student Loan Repayment Program (CLAARP) and the John R. Justice Program. CLAARP reimburses a portion of eligible federal student loan debt for civil legal assistance attorneys—$6,000 per attorney per year to a maximum of $40,000. John R. Justice reimburses a portion of eligible federal student loan debt for district attorneys and public defenders—$10,000 per attorney per year to a maximum of $60,000. Both programs require a 3-year service agreement.
http://pslawnet.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/pursuing-a-public-interest-career-key-insights-from-nalppslawnet-public-service-mini-conference-and-ejw-conference-and-career-fair-part-2-of-2/
The Equal Justice Works (EJW) Conference also featured a lengthy presentation on student debt relief. For many years, most law school graduates that decided to pursue public interest careers had a very difficult time paying back their student loan debt. In the last few years, however, the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program (PSLF) has made it much easier to manage that debt. In fact, PSLF has made it so easy that, according to EJW’s expert on student debt relief, Heather Jarvis, “it is better financially in terms of debt relief to go into public service.”
PSLF was created by the College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007. As Heather often repeated in her presentation, to qualify for PSLF, a person must “make the right kind of payment on the right kind of loan while in the right kind of job.” After 120 qualifying payments, one can apply for and receive forgiveness of the remaining debt.
So what is “the right kind of payment on the right kind of loan while in the right kind of job”?
The “right kind of payment” is referred to as income-based repayment (IBR). IBR is different from a term loan of 10 years or 30 years because it is not calculated to be paid off in a finite period of time; IBR is calculated based only on one’s adjusted gross income. As a result, IBR is significantly less than most 30-year term plan payments. IBR is for everyone regardless of whether one is working in public service. For married couples, both spouses’ debt as well as their income will be considered for purposes of determining the IBR payment. You can determine your IBR payment by going to http://www.ibrinfo.org/ and www.finaid.org/calculators/ibr.phtml.
The “right kind of loan” for purposes of PSLF is a Federal Direct loan. It also includes Grad Plus, FFEL, Perkins and Stafford loans if consolidated with federal direct loans after graduation. The only loans that are NOT included are commercial or alternative loans, Parent PLUS loans, late payments, and loans that are currently in default. Even if some of your debt was incurred before 2007 (when PSLF was created), you need only to reconsolidate under Federal Direct in order to avail yourself of PSLF. You can find out what kinds of student loans you have by going to http://www.nslds.ed.gov/.
The “right kind of job” for purposes of PSLF is work for a government, 501(c)(3) charitable non-profit organization, Americorps, Peace Corps or most other public service organization. The definition is so broad that the only kind of work that is probably NOT included is for-profit sector work, international work, contract work, or work for labor unions. The work must be paid and “full time.” “Full time” means whatever the organization says it means or at least 30 hours per week. The work does not need to be legal, though one needs to be in the qualifying employment when forgiveness is granted.
The best part about IBR is that one can still qualify for loan forgiveness after 25 years, even if one leaves public service, if their income remains low enough for them to qualify. However, if one makes 120 IBR payments while in public service, her debt will be forgiven in just 10 years.
Heather also provided some brief information about two other programs: the Civil Legal Assistance Attorney Student Loan Repayment Program (CLAARP) and the John R. Justice Program. CLAARP reimburses a portion of eligible federal student loan debt for civil legal assistance attorneys—$6,000 per attorney per year to a maximum of $40,000. John R. Justice reimburses a portion of eligible federal student loan debt for district attorneys and public defenders—$10,000 per attorney per year to a maximum of $60,000. Both programs require a 3-year service agreement.
http://pslawnet.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/pursuing-a-public-interest-career-key-insights-from-nalppslawnet-public-service-mini-conference-and-ejw-conference-and-career-fair-part-2-of-2/
Monday, November 15, 2010
Finding and Making the Most of a Mentor
by Leeor Neta, Assistant Director for Public Interest Programs at Golden Gate University School of Law. Excerpted from Key Insights from NALP/PSLawNet Public Service Mini-Conference and EJW Conference Career Fair.
Finding and Making the Most of a Mentor
On the last day of the conference, I attended a session on how to find and maintain a mentor relationship. The speaker explained that there are three ingredients to successful mentorship: (1) reasonable expectations, (2) a strategic approach, and (3) a two-way relationship.
In order to ensure that one’s expectations are reasonable, mentees should ask themselves specifically what they are hoping to get out of the relationship. The mentor relationship cannot just be designed to find the mentee a job, but it can be designed to help the mentee acquire skills, act as a sounding board for the mentee, and offer answers to specific questions the mentee might have. Because no one mentor can do everything, mentees should “build a board of mentors”, each one of whom is available to provide advice and support on a specific topic.
Finding multiple mentors requires some strategic thinking, and that means planning where to find mentors and how to approach them. Everyone agreed that students need to create LinkedIn profiles and use keyword searches to identify potential mentors. Indeed, one of the attorneys in attendance confessed that she found a job through her LinkedIn profile.
Once a mentor is found, the mentee needs to make sure that the relationship remains “a two way street.” What that means is that mentees need to think about what they bring to the relationship — whether it be a certain kind of energy, a different perspective, or even knowledge about social media advocacy — and offer themselves as resources to their mentors.
http://pslawnet.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/pursuing-a-public-interest-career-key-insights-from-nalppslawnet-public-service-mini-conference-and-ejw-conference-and-career-fair-part-2-of-2/
Finding and Making the Most of a Mentor
On the last day of the conference, I attended a session on how to find and maintain a mentor relationship. The speaker explained that there are three ingredients to successful mentorship: (1) reasonable expectations, (2) a strategic approach, and (3) a two-way relationship.
In order to ensure that one’s expectations are reasonable, mentees should ask themselves specifically what they are hoping to get out of the relationship. The mentor relationship cannot just be designed to find the mentee a job, but it can be designed to help the mentee acquire skills, act as a sounding board for the mentee, and offer answers to specific questions the mentee might have. Because no one mentor can do everything, mentees should “build a board of mentors”, each one of whom is available to provide advice and support on a specific topic.
Finding multiple mentors requires some strategic thinking, and that means planning where to find mentors and how to approach them. Everyone agreed that students need to create LinkedIn profiles and use keyword searches to identify potential mentors. Indeed, one of the attorneys in attendance confessed that she found a job through her LinkedIn profile.
Once a mentor is found, the mentee needs to make sure that the relationship remains “a two way street.” What that means is that mentees need to think about what they bring to the relationship — whether it be a certain kind of energy, a different perspective, or even knowledge about social media advocacy — and offer themselves as resources to their mentors.
http://pslawnet.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/pursuing-a-public-interest-career-key-insights-from-nalppslawnet-public-service-mini-conference-and-ejw-conference-and-career-fair-part-2-of-2/
Friday, November 12, 2010
Help! I Get Interviews, But No Call-backs
If you are consistenly getting interviews, but no call-backs, here are some common causes:
What you can do:
from Guerilla Tactics for Getting the Legal Job of Your Dreams by Kimm Alayne Walton, 583-584
- You're interviewing for jobs you don't really want.
- You're answering a question with something that triggers a negative response in the interviewer.
- You've got a habit, verbal or non-verbal, that's throwing off the interviewer.
- You're not communicating, verbally and/or behaviorally, your interest in the job. If you answer questions monosyllabically, if you don't seem to know anything about the employers, if you sigh or roll your eyes . . . you're telling the employer, 'I don't want to work for you.'
What you can do:
- Don't suffer in silence. Let the Career Services Office know what's happening--get in touch with your counselor:
- Karen Andrews, 1Ls, externships
- MariLee Allred, 2Ls, public interest tracks including government & military
- Beth Hansen, 3Ls, non-traditional career tracks, clerkships
- Mary Hoagland, LLMs, Alumni
- Arrange a mock interview
- Email Beth Hansen to arrange a mock interview. This interview will be videotaped so you can review it with Beth to look for things that might be an issue.
- Think carefully about your interviews. Was there a point where things seemed to go downhill? What happened immediately before and after that time?
- Review your motivation for interviewing with each employer. If you don't really want to work there, the interviewers can sense it. Your enthusiasm will shine naturally when you go after jobs that really interest you.
- Remember: job offers are like marriage proposals. If employers feel you won't accept, they won't make you one.
from Guerilla Tactics for Getting the Legal Job of Your Dreams by Kimm Alayne Walton, 583-584
Wednesday, November 10, 2010
Pursuing a Public Interest Career: Key Insights from NALP/PSLawNet Public Service Mini-Conference and EJW Conference and Career Fair
by Leeor Neta, the Assistant Director for Public Interest Programs at Golden Gate University School of Law.
Best Advice I Know on Pursuing a Public Interest Career
On the last day of the NALP / PSLawNet Public Service Mini-Conference, I attended a panel discussion that indirectly shared some important advice on how to pursue a public interest career.
I say that the advice was “indirectly shared” because the purpose of the panel was to discuss pathways to public policy and think tank careers. Two of the four panelists (Nicole Austin-Hillery, director and counsel for the Brennan Center for Justice, and Alejandro T. Reyes, associate counsel for the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law) are involved in some of the most prestigious impact litigation and legal policy work in the nation.
Both of the panelists agreed that lawyers who work on policy need to understand the nexus between law and enforcement. In concluding that the “best policy percolates up from the street,” Ms. Austin-Hillery explained that a policy lawyer can’t craft effective policy unless she understands her clients and understands how to get them to tell their stories. A policy lawyer needs to make brief and effective arguments under pressure. A policy lawyer also needs to know how to work with opposing forces and different interests to negotiate on her clients’ behalf. Because effective communication and negotiation skills are the key to policy work, the entire panel agreed that a lawyer wanting to work on policy needs a solid foundation in litigation.
The panel also suggested that law students interested in policy work try to work for state legislatures, researching and helping to draft proposed legislation. International work experience, moot courts, and writing opportunities are also considered important. Everyone agreed that working for the Administrative Office of the Courts and State Bar Associations were ideal — and less competitive — ways to acquire policy work experience.
The panel’s best advice pertained to all aspiring public interest lawyers. First, they advised — as I have already done for many of you — that law students identify five to ten offices that they would like to work for and try to join their advisory boards. Many of those offices might need independent legal advice and the work that one does as a board member is a great way to leverage an employment offer once a position opens up. Students should consider a two-week immersion program, some of which are extremely affordable (one of the panelists described a program in Mexico that costs less than $800!).
Finally, the entire panel agreed that the best candidates for entry-level positions demonstrate through their resumes and cover letters that they were born to pursue the job for which they’re applying. Their resumes demonstrate a seamless progression of attention and commitment to a specific area. Therefore, “the sooner you can decide what it is you want to do with your legal career, the better prepared you will be when you apply for your first job.”
As I have said many times and heard often repeated at the panel on policy work, a postgraduate fellowship is one of the most important ways to launch a public interest career. That’s why — even though I am very familiar with the subject — I made it a point to attend another panel later in the week on postgraduate fellowships and to hear about the latest related developments.
Jennifer Tschirch, the fellowships senior program manager at Equal Justice Works, began by dividing fellowships into several basic categories.
The first kind of fellowship is the organization-based fellowship where students apply to and work with an organization that separately obtains the funds to support a salary for the fellow, training and a wealth of other resources. Examples include the fellowships offered by the ACLU and the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights.
The second kind of fellowship is the law firm-based fellowship, where students are hired by a law firm and split time between that firm and a public interest organization. Examples include the fellowships offered by the law firms Fried Frank and Hunton Williams.
A third type of fellowship is the entrepreneurial fellowship, in which a student develops a complete proposal for a new agency and applies for funds to run the agency herself. The most notable example is the Echoing Green Fellowship. A fourth type of fellowship is the project-based fellowship in which a student develops a complete proposal for a project that is housed at a host organization and then applies for funds to support the project. The most notable project-based fellowship is the Equal Justice Works Fellowship. The main difference between the entrepreneurial and project-based fellowship is that a host organization is a partner in the application for the project-based fellowship, while there is no host organization in the entrepreneurial fellowship.
There is also a catch-all category for fellowships that are not so easily defined. This includes fellowships like the three-year Public Defender Corps program that provides essential skills training for aspiring public defenders.
The panel did not spend a lot of time talking about the different categories and instead spoke in detail about the two postgraduate opportunities offered by Equal Justice Works. The first, the Equal Justice Works Americorps, supports 80 entry-level positions with predetermined public service organizations in 17 states and the District of Columbia. The positions last one year with an option to renew. During their term of service, the fellows support the organization’s work and receive invaluable training. The second postgraduate opportunity offered by Equal Justice Works is the project-based Equal Justice Works Fellowship (introduced above). For that program, a student or an attorney collaborates with a host organization to develop and design a project and pitch that project to Equal Justice Works one year in advance of the start date. Ninety such fellowships are offered each year. Unlike the Equal Justice Works Americorps Program, the Fellowship Program places no limit on the number of years an applicant has been out of school.
The panel offered a wealth of advice for persons planning to pursue a project-based fellowship, like the Equal Justice Works Fellowship. The first task is for the applicant to envision their dream job and research and approach potential host organizations. All of the panelists agreed that it is never too early to do this work. Indeed, they advised that if you are considering the possibility of applying for an Equal Justice Works Fellowship, you should spend your first summer in law school working with an organization that has hosted Fellows in the past.
Finally, the panel explained that the best applications demonstrate a compelling need, know the community and get stakeholder buy-in (either through service on an advisory board or participation in community workshops and focus groups), propose realistic and targeted strategies (i.e., replicate successful models by looking at what’s been funded in the past), show commitment to the work and get extensive feedback!
For more information about all postgraduate fellowships, visit www.pslawnet.org/postgraduatefellowships.
http://pslawnet.wordpress.com/2010/11/01/pursuing-a-public-interest-career-key-insights-from-nalppslawnet-public-service-mini-conference-and-ejw-conference-and-career-fair/#more-2441
Best Advice I Know on Pursuing a Public Interest Career
On the last day of the NALP / PSLawNet Public Service Mini-Conference, I attended a panel discussion that indirectly shared some important advice on how to pursue a public interest career.
I say that the advice was “indirectly shared” because the purpose of the panel was to discuss pathways to public policy and think tank careers. Two of the four panelists (Nicole Austin-Hillery, director and counsel for the Brennan Center for Justice, and Alejandro T. Reyes, associate counsel for the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law) are involved in some of the most prestigious impact litigation and legal policy work in the nation.
Both of the panelists agreed that lawyers who work on policy need to understand the nexus between law and enforcement. In concluding that the “best policy percolates up from the street,” Ms. Austin-Hillery explained that a policy lawyer can’t craft effective policy unless she understands her clients and understands how to get them to tell their stories. A policy lawyer needs to make brief and effective arguments under pressure. A policy lawyer also needs to know how to work with opposing forces and different interests to negotiate on her clients’ behalf. Because effective communication and negotiation skills are the key to policy work, the entire panel agreed that a lawyer wanting to work on policy needs a solid foundation in litigation.
The panel also suggested that law students interested in policy work try to work for state legislatures, researching and helping to draft proposed legislation. International work experience, moot courts, and writing opportunities are also considered important. Everyone agreed that working for the Administrative Office of the Courts and State Bar Associations were ideal — and less competitive — ways to acquire policy work experience.
The panel’s best advice pertained to all aspiring public interest lawyers. First, they advised — as I have already done for many of you — that law students identify five to ten offices that they would like to work for and try to join their advisory boards. Many of those offices might need independent legal advice and the work that one does as a board member is a great way to leverage an employment offer once a position opens up. Students should consider a two-week immersion program, some of which are extremely affordable (one of the panelists described a program in Mexico that costs less than $800!).
Finally, the entire panel agreed that the best candidates for entry-level positions demonstrate through their resumes and cover letters that they were born to pursue the job for which they’re applying. Their resumes demonstrate a seamless progression of attention and commitment to a specific area. Therefore, “the sooner you can decide what it is you want to do with your legal career, the better prepared you will be when you apply for your first job.”
As I have said many times and heard often repeated at the panel on policy work, a postgraduate fellowship is one of the most important ways to launch a public interest career. That’s why — even though I am very familiar with the subject — I made it a point to attend another panel later in the week on postgraduate fellowships and to hear about the latest related developments.
Jennifer Tschirch, the fellowships senior program manager at Equal Justice Works, began by dividing fellowships into several basic categories.
The first kind of fellowship is the organization-based fellowship where students apply to and work with an organization that separately obtains the funds to support a salary for the fellow, training and a wealth of other resources. Examples include the fellowships offered by the ACLU and the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights.
The second kind of fellowship is the law firm-based fellowship, where students are hired by a law firm and split time between that firm and a public interest organization. Examples include the fellowships offered by the law firms Fried Frank and Hunton Williams.
A third type of fellowship is the entrepreneurial fellowship, in which a student develops a complete proposal for a new agency and applies for funds to run the agency herself. The most notable example is the Echoing Green Fellowship. A fourth type of fellowship is the project-based fellowship in which a student develops a complete proposal for a project that is housed at a host organization and then applies for funds to support the project. The most notable project-based fellowship is the Equal Justice Works Fellowship. The main difference between the entrepreneurial and project-based fellowship is that a host organization is a partner in the application for the project-based fellowship, while there is no host organization in the entrepreneurial fellowship.
There is also a catch-all category for fellowships that are not so easily defined. This includes fellowships like the three-year Public Defender Corps program that provides essential skills training for aspiring public defenders.
The panel did not spend a lot of time talking about the different categories and instead spoke in detail about the two postgraduate opportunities offered by Equal Justice Works. The first, the Equal Justice Works Americorps, supports 80 entry-level positions with predetermined public service organizations in 17 states and the District of Columbia. The positions last one year with an option to renew. During their term of service, the fellows support the organization’s work and receive invaluable training. The second postgraduate opportunity offered by Equal Justice Works is the project-based Equal Justice Works Fellowship (introduced above). For that program, a student or an attorney collaborates with a host organization to develop and design a project and pitch that project to Equal Justice Works one year in advance of the start date. Ninety such fellowships are offered each year. Unlike the Equal Justice Works Americorps Program, the Fellowship Program places no limit on the number of years an applicant has been out of school.
The panel offered a wealth of advice for persons planning to pursue a project-based fellowship, like the Equal Justice Works Fellowship. The first task is for the applicant to envision their dream job and research and approach potential host organizations. All of the panelists agreed that it is never too early to do this work. Indeed, they advised that if you are considering the possibility of applying for an Equal Justice Works Fellowship, you should spend your first summer in law school working with an organization that has hosted Fellows in the past.
Finally, the panel explained that the best applications demonstrate a compelling need, know the community and get stakeholder buy-in (either through service on an advisory board or participation in community workshops and focus groups), propose realistic and targeted strategies (i.e., replicate successful models by looking at what’s been funded in the past), show commitment to the work and get extensive feedback!
For more information about all postgraduate fellowships, visit www.pslawnet.org/postgraduatefellowships.
http://pslawnet.wordpress.com/2010/11/01/pursuing-a-public-interest-career-key-insights-from-nalppslawnet-public-service-mini-conference-and-ejw-conference-and-career-fair/#more-2441
Monday, November 8, 2010
Using Twitter as Networking Strategy
by Amanda Ellis, Legal Search
Jason Tenenbaum, a 2L at Hofstra Law School (www.twitter.com/t10nbaum) recently used Twitter to successfully connect with a general counsel at a professional sports team. He recounts his experience:
While many students use Twitter to follow celebrities or communicate with friends, I've discovered that Twitter is an incredible professional resource where I can build relationships with legal professionals. I recently participated in a Twitter chat, #LawJobChat, about in-house legal careers. I was intrigued with the chat, so I tweeted that I was a law student interested in learning more about the role of an in-house attorney.
The general counsel of a professional sports team responded to my tweet. I asked him how he got started and he answered, "too long of a story for 140 characters, let's set up a time and talk on the phone." Our conversation was great. We discussed the details of his job, how he got to his current position, and skills that are useful for an in-house attorney. He spent over 45 minutes on the phone with me, and offered advice on classes to take, organizations to join and other attorneys to contact to learn more about being an in-house attorney.
After talking with the general counsel, I realized the importance of networking and interacting with others. The general counsel emphasized that employers want to know law students can work in a team, and law students can demonstrate this skill by meeting and interacting with attorneys. The general counsel added that it is great to have good grades, but you need to be able to carry on a conversation and interact with other attorneys, clients, secretaries, and paralegals in order to thrive.
Perhaps the best result of my conversation with the general counsel is our new friendship. Now, we talk regularly, tweeting back and forth about sports, technology and of course, the law. I can ask him any questions I have about sports, sports law, books to read or law school classes. He is an additional resource in my professional network. Relationships like the one I now have with this attorney are the greatest benefit one can obtain from Twitter.
3 things that will contribute to your success networking via Twitter:
Ask but don't push. Note that Jason tweeted that he wanted to learn more about the role of an in-house attorney, and he waited for other users to respond to him. He didn't push or bombard in-house attorneys on Twitter with hundreds of follow-up questions or tweets.
Expand the reach of your network with social networking. Jason and the general counsel live thousands of miles apart. The general counsel is not a contact Jason would have met at a local networking event, yet Jason was able to meet him through social networking.
Take the online connection offline. Online and offline networking are not mutually exclusive. While Jason met the general counsel through Twitter, Jason received substantive information and further developed the relationship by talking on the phone with the general counsel. Connect online to develop offline relationships. For more information on developing the offline relationship, I encourage you to read "Moving from Social Networking to Handshakes" by Tom Ksobiech, the Assistant Dean for Career Services at the University of Alabama School of Law.
Have you had any success stories using Twitter? We'd love to hear them. Email us.
Jason Tenenbaum, a 2L at Hofstra Law School (www.twitter.com/t10nbaum) recently used Twitter to successfully connect with a general counsel at a professional sports team. He recounts his experience:
While many students use Twitter to follow celebrities or communicate with friends, I've discovered that Twitter is an incredible professional resource where I can build relationships with legal professionals. I recently participated in a Twitter chat, #LawJobChat, about in-house legal careers. I was intrigued with the chat, so I tweeted that I was a law student interested in learning more about the role of an in-house attorney.
The general counsel of a professional sports team responded to my tweet. I asked him how he got started and he answered, "too long of a story for 140 characters, let's set up a time and talk on the phone." Our conversation was great. We discussed the details of his job, how he got to his current position, and skills that are useful for an in-house attorney. He spent over 45 minutes on the phone with me, and offered advice on classes to take, organizations to join and other attorneys to contact to learn more about being an in-house attorney.
After talking with the general counsel, I realized the importance of networking and interacting with others. The general counsel emphasized that employers want to know law students can work in a team, and law students can demonstrate this skill by meeting and interacting with attorneys. The general counsel added that it is great to have good grades, but you need to be able to carry on a conversation and interact with other attorneys, clients, secretaries, and paralegals in order to thrive.
Perhaps the best result of my conversation with the general counsel is our new friendship. Now, we talk regularly, tweeting back and forth about sports, technology and of course, the law. I can ask him any questions I have about sports, sports law, books to read or law school classes. He is an additional resource in my professional network. Relationships like the one I now have with this attorney are the greatest benefit one can obtain from Twitter.
3 things that will contribute to your success networking via Twitter:
Ask but don't push. Note that Jason tweeted that he wanted to learn more about the role of an in-house attorney, and he waited for other users to respond to him. He didn't push or bombard in-house attorneys on Twitter with hundreds of follow-up questions or tweets.
Expand the reach of your network with social networking. Jason and the general counsel live thousands of miles apart. The general counsel is not a contact Jason would have met at a local networking event, yet Jason was able to meet him through social networking.
Take the online connection offline. Online and offline networking are not mutually exclusive. While Jason met the general counsel through Twitter, Jason received substantive information and further developed the relationship by talking on the phone with the general counsel. Connect online to develop offline relationships. For more information on developing the offline relationship, I encourage you to read "Moving from Social Networking to Handshakes" by Tom Ksobiech, the Assistant Dean for Career Services at the University of Alabama School of Law.
Have you had any success stories using Twitter? We'd love to hear them. Email us.
Friday, November 5, 2010
Moving from Social Networking to Handshakes via Twitter
by Thomas C. Ksobiech, Assistant Dean for Career Services, The University of Alabama School of Law
Get started now. Join Twitter, create a professional-sounding user name and start searching for legal terms that interest you. In short order, you’ll find people in the legal field who are writing about things that matter to you. Adding locations to your searches can also help narrow it down.
Don’t neglect your social interests. Just as you don’t want to be the person at the party who can only talk about work, you don’t want to be the person on Twitter who is solely focused on your job search. Go ahead and follow celebrities, media outlets, and fellow fans. Interact with others on these topics. It’s not only acceptable, it’s beneficial.
Open dialogues with others. Here’s where you have the opportunity to actually begin discussions with individuals. Whether in open tweeting or through direct messages, Twitter provides you with a way of initiating contact and conversation. Maybe it’s easier to start your conversations about non-job related topics. That’s fine. The important part is that you start interacting with professionals who can provide you with information and advice.
Take it outside of the medium. After you have interacted with an individual on Twitter, it is perfectly appropriate to ask if it would be possible to take the conversation to a non-computer based medium. If it’s someone in close geographic proximity, set up a meeting for coffee. If it’s someone more distant, ask if there is a time that the two of you could talk by phone.
If you’re uncomfortable meeting in person right away, talk on the phone. When push comes to shove, networking is still about building relationships. In the past two centuries, technology has continued to provide us with newer and better ways of networking, but technology has not changed the basic concept. Namely, people like helping people. And if you develop relationships with enough people, you’ll eventually find yourself talking to someone who not only wants to help you, but also can help you.
You don’t have to use Twitter or other social media, in order to find a job. You also don’t have to go to ribbon cuttings and bar meetings to find a job. But if you knew that by doing those things, you would have a greater likelihood of success, wouldn’t you want to do them?
Thomas C. Ksobiech is the Assistant Dean for Career Services at The University of Alabama School of Law. You will find him on Twitter as @TomKsobiech.
Get started now. Join Twitter, create a professional-sounding user name and start searching for legal terms that interest you. In short order, you’ll find people in the legal field who are writing about things that matter to you. Adding locations to your searches can also help narrow it down.
Don’t neglect your social interests. Just as you don’t want to be the person at the party who can only talk about work, you don’t want to be the person on Twitter who is solely focused on your job search. Go ahead and follow celebrities, media outlets, and fellow fans. Interact with others on these topics. It’s not only acceptable, it’s beneficial.
Open dialogues with others. Here’s where you have the opportunity to actually begin discussions with individuals. Whether in open tweeting or through direct messages, Twitter provides you with a way of initiating contact and conversation. Maybe it’s easier to start your conversations about non-job related topics. That’s fine. The important part is that you start interacting with professionals who can provide you with information and advice.
Take it outside of the medium. After you have interacted with an individual on Twitter, it is perfectly appropriate to ask if it would be possible to take the conversation to a non-computer based medium. If it’s someone in close geographic proximity, set up a meeting for coffee. If it’s someone more distant, ask if there is a time that the two of you could talk by phone.
If you’re uncomfortable meeting in person right away, talk on the phone. When push comes to shove, networking is still about building relationships. In the past two centuries, technology has continued to provide us with newer and better ways of networking, but technology has not changed the basic concept. Namely, people like helping people. And if you develop relationships with enough people, you’ll eventually find yourself talking to someone who not only wants to help you, but also can help you.
You don’t have to use Twitter or other social media, in order to find a job. You also don’t have to go to ribbon cuttings and bar meetings to find a job. But if you knew that by doing those things, you would have a greater likelihood of success, wouldn’t you want to do them?
Thomas C. Ksobiech is the Assistant Dean for Career Services at The University of Alabama School of Law. You will find him on Twitter as @TomKsobiech.
Monday, November 1, 2010
Ideas for Good Questions to Ask in Interviews
An essential part of interviewing is having good questions to ask the interviewers. Below are some ideas for good questions:
Personal Questions
Questions that Show Off Your Research into the Employer and the Interviewer
Questions that Gives You a Chance to Wheel Out Your Informercial
Carefully Worded Questions about What Your Own Job Experience with the Employer Would Be Like
Other Questions
Questions to Avoid in Initial Interviews
from Querrilla Tactics for Getting the Legal Job of Your Dreams by Kimm Alayne Walton
Personal Questions
- What do you like about your job?
- How did you choose the firm/agency/company?
- What do you wish you'd known before you got here?
- If you could change anything about your job, what would it be?
- What do you find most challenging about being a lawyer?
- When you go back to work/the office, what will you be working on?
- What's the best thing that's happened to you working here?
- What's the most interesting case/project you've worked on?
- How is your job different than what you expected it to be?
- If you were to stay for twenty years, why would you stay?
Questions that Show Off Your Research into the Employer and the Interviewer
- Anything that's thoughtful and shows off your research, especially if it's related to a practice area that interests you.
- Ask questions that tie the employer's practice to current events. For instance, you can ask how they're prepping clients for a new law, or how they're handling a merger one of their clients is involved in.
- Ask something that shows you did more than Google the firm--find someone who's worked at the firm.
Questions that Gives You a Chance to Wheel Out Your Informercial
- What would the ideal candidate for this job look like? or What do you look for in people you hire? Then you can say, "I'm glad to hear that. Here's what you need to know about me . . . ."
Carefully Worded Questions about What Your Own Job Experience with the Employer Would Be Like
- What would a typical day look like for me?
- What kinds of cases/projects would I work on?
- What makes a clerk/new associate/new lawyer really stand out?
Other Questions
- Which practices areas at the firm are growing the most rapidly?
- How has the practice changed over the last five years?
- How would you get feedback on your work?
- Is there a mentor program?
Questions to Avoid in Initial Interviews
- Anything that sounds like "what's in it for me?"
- Questions with a negative tone.
- Unanswerable questions like, What's the firm culture like?
- Any question you could answer yourself through simple research, ex. How many attorneys do you have? What are your practice areas? In which cities do you have offices?
- Something they've already covered in the interview.
- What kind of hours will I be working?
- What billable hours do you expect?
- Anything about information you've gathered about the interviewer on MySpace, Facebook, etc.
- What's the benefit package like? Vacations?
- Any questions about salary.
- How many people besides me are you interviewing?
- What's your policy on maternity leave?
- Do I have a shot? Am I in the running?
- Not asking questions.
from Querrilla Tactics for Getting the Legal Job of Your Dreams by Kimm Alayne Walton
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